At 03:44 AM 03-11-99 PST, you wrote:
Dear Dr.Loganathan:

Thank you for your posting elaborating Meykandars classification of people into cakaLar etc. Your translation is very lucid and no problem in understanding Meykandar this way.

Regarding Sufism and Saivism, it is a common understanding that Saivism is related to Islam in many ways as Vaishnavism to Christianity. Joseph Cambell would call Jesus as a Vaishnavite and in my opinion if he were born in the soil of Tamilnadu he would have been the first Alwar. I have written a Pasura madal on this.

It is interesting to note the classification as VinjaanakaLar, cakaLar, piraLayaakalar. I wonder wheather Meykandar leaves some room for non-believers and agnostics? or is there a class for people with no religious inclination at all?

As for as Vaishnavism is concerned Nammalvar fits into Vinjaanakalar type. Thirumangaialwar as piraLayaakalar as God confronts him directly. For the second category, one may tell the story of the birth of Sri Ramanuja as a "world teacher" or Guru.
I am not aware of such as classification in Vaishnavism. However, knowing my knowledge as highly limited I should not elaborate this aspect further. I think Vedanta Desikar was a stalwart written so many treatise on Vaishnava world view including Psychology. Unfortunately there are not many tamil translation of his work (Original-Sanskrit).

However, I will keep this in mind and write when I get new insights.

Kannan

Dear Dr. Kannan,

Thank-you very much. I am glad to note that you have begun the study of Mammaazvar etc in terms of the kalar concept of personality which I think is absent from Vaishnava philosophical writings. Their genius went in different directions especially in the directions of elaborating Prapaththi AND that of interpreting the existential meanings of Ramayana and other puranic lores and for which they abandoned the literary principles of Tamil Grammarians that they worked out for Sangam classics.  Yes most of religious geniuses not only Saivism and Vaishnavism but also that of Islam and Christianity (plus other religions) can be classified as Vinjnjaanakalar etc . However there are also subtle differences that I have elaborated in my massive AzilviluNmai (still remains unpublished even online). The way Nammazvar handles pancakritthiyam seems to be quite different from that of Appar, Thriunjanasamabanthar and Sundarar. While the Saivites have sung eloquently panjsaakkara pathikams, the Vaishnava saints have not done this. Certainly Nammazvar does mention this concept but only within the metaphor of  digestion and regurgitation.

See:
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                surar aRi varu nilai viN muzuvathum
 varan muthalaayavai muzuthuNta paran
 puramoru muunReriththu amararkkum aRiviyanthu
 aran ayanena ulaku

Here he comes very close for "puram muunReriththal" is also found in Saivism however there, for e.g. the muppuram is interpreted as mummla kaariyam, the mental castles build by individuals because of Mayamalam, Kanma Malam, and Anava Malam , a notion that you do not find in the Vaishnava Philosophical literature. In fact the concept of Maalam esp. that of Anava Maalam is absent, as far as I can see in Vaishnavism as well in the different schools of Vedanta. Vaishnavism still remains essentially Samkya  where they interprete all these in terms of Kunas, Thamasam, Rajasam and Sathvikam. This also true of Bagath Gita which is essentaily an elaboration of Isvara Samkya Tharisanam.  The metaphor of digestion, retention and regurgitation, while may account for Creation, Sustenance and destruction, cannot, I think incorporate that of AruLal ( disclosure) and maRaiththal (concealment).  The latter two concepts emerge only in the wake of understanding the presence of Anavam as the uncreated  Darkness producingstuff,   AGAINST which LIGHT must introduced into the world by VIOLATING the Satanic anavam.
 The difference between you and me with respect to the meaning of metaphor may also be related to this.

I will return to these in a few days time.  Thoroughly exhausted because, I guess , over application.  Will return after a few days break.  I intend to bring out these differences more elaborately with my study of Appar and his experience of ThiruSiRRampalam.

Dr K.Loganathan

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